"Καθημερινή K magazine"



Parece que en un periódico griego hablan de que los jugadores de warhammer son de extrema derecha, así en general, y hay mucha gente que se ha quedado muy indignada, lo he visto en Warseer:
en español
[....]nalismo-los-aficionados-al-40k.html

aparentemente se basa en una entrevista que hicieron estos a uno jugadores



War on a table

A plunge into the dark, bizarre and militaristic world of the game that combines modeling and strategy, and holds as "prisoners" thousands of players in Greece and all over the World.

"Blood for the Blood God, Skulls for the Skull Throne". This is the motto and war-cry of the servants of the God of Chaos, Khorne (The Antipope: she translates if phonetically to Greek as "Horn"...). If you think that this sentence was "strange" enough as a magazine's article opening line, wait and see what's to come. This started as a report for one of the most popular miniature tabletop games of the last 30 years and I still don't know how I ended up fighting against "Daemons of Chaos" in 40000 AD and hang out with creatures with names such as Necrons, Dark Eldar, Black Angels (not sure what army that is...)and much more like them...undead and badass.

(Caption under my picture): Dedication. Studying the rules needs time, building requires effort, the creation of a decent army...money- up to 500 euros for the starter "set". During the game all this is forgotten though.

(Caption under next picture): Precise calculations. Before any move the player must contemplate on it's consequences. "Somehow like chess..." like they told us, but much bloodier.

Dozens of horrible creatures, together with an Emperor-God (of the earthlings) and four Gods of Chaos, live in the blackest, obscurantist, religionist, militaristic, fundamentalist, authoritarian, racist, abominable and repulsive world ever conceived by the human mind. In fact, by the British mind, since the game was coined and released in England at the beginning of the eighties.

The game, that for the last 30 years has been played by millions of people all over the world, is called "Warhammer:40000 or "40K" for it's friends. With many of these friends (Greeks) we talked about the multifarious 40K and it's exceptional miniatures, modeling, hobby, required intelligence, strategic ability, men (that play), women (that don't) and daemons that eat souls (soul-eating is the pop corn of the future).

In the same future that, as the general motto of the game states, "There is no time for peace. Neither for forgiveness. There is only war. Endless War."

Little "toy soldiers" for men? And beyond...

As an intro into the world of this "joyful" game, we watched ,during a tournament, around forty males (between 18 and 39 years old), with tape measures and dice on hand, planning assaults against the military units that were placed on top of special dioramas (model battlefields with obstacles, buildings, trees etc.). 40K is a game of strategy (or tactics rather) and requires thought, a lot time studying the rules and a certain degree of intelligence of the mathematically skilled type. The toy soldier miniatures-designed with a lot of imagination and incredible details by the company of Games Workshop-have to be assembled and painted by the hobbyists-players. Painting the "armies" is a form of art on it's own accord, to which modelers dedicated hours or even days. Considering all this, when questioned "why do you play" everybody gave the same answer:" Because it's a hobby that gives me the opportunity to do miniature modeling, to think strategically and, mainly, get together with friends at least twice a week, for gaming, talking, painting...". That's great!

At this point it could be the end of this discussion, if there wasn't for the fluff to be considered, i.e. if there was no ideological-mythical environment of 40K. The world "fluff" ,that is the creation of tabletop or non tabletop role playing gamers and it has to do with everything else but the rule set of the game, is the key to open the...darkness of 40K. Because the fictions, facts and characteristics of the bloodthirsty and soul-hungering soldiers are so outrageous that the question "but, why do you want to play?" was coming back to our conversation almost automatically.

To think or not to think?

What does someone need furthermost in order to be able to play 40K? "Brains", most of them think, claiming at the same time that "nobody takes fluff seriously" but also..."I chose the game based on the fluff" or "real life is a different thing to the game" but also..."I have seen in the US the ideology of the army and the player matching to a dangerous degree. I've even seen a player with swastikas tattooed all over his body". So many contradictions they could win a Guinness world record.

Generally speaking, when having to choose the game, but also the army, fluff is always there to play a role. As a 38 old professor of biotechnology told us "I also chose an army based on the fluff - I play with dark eldar..."(he stops to think)"in the end they are psychic vampires..." (pausing and saying out very loud)... "I don't even care about my army's fluff!". Perhaps a mind with mathematical skills is necessary but it also seems necessary that the same mind needs the ability not to be able to...think!

The first thing we found out about the 40 participants of the tournament, is that most of them is what we would call "educated" (higher degree level) and working (you need a lot of money to be able to play 40K seriously for many years). Amongst them we found a manager of marketing in a multinational company, a university professor, a gold smith, a 23 year old business man, many civil engineers and many students (chemists, engineers, mathematicians).

Most of them started off as fans of science or heroic fiction, mythology, history and comic books. Many of them have read the low literary value novels based on the game's fluff, for which 30 year old Thanos said: "If I had a child, I wouldn't let him read these novels before he develops his character". We can summarize the profile of the average 40K player as follows: a rather "introvert", lonely guy that doesn't like to go out, doesn't like to watch the TV or football(!), but he likes listening to music (foreign, and mainly classic rock) and he prefers when going out to talk with friends in cafes or houses. Many of them claimed that they "believe in God", whom they defined as the "beginning" of everything or "the power" of the universe etc. but they don't like his "fan club". Couple of them claimed to be pronounced atheists.

Lastly, we found out that all of them are ready to talk about politics, expressing extreme ideas more or less with words that are somewhat muddled inside their heads. We only found one person who deals with the understanding of human relationships, while most of the other are ignorant even of the word "psychology".

Heil, Emperor?

A large percentage of their population compared with their average number (5 out of the 15 interviewees) had some racist and xenophobic ideas and had been involved with the study of Nazi texts, including "Mein Kampf" by Adolf Hitler. George, a mulatto (from a Greek father and a mother from impoverished Louisiana), one of the most intelligent and sincere kids we met, following the question if the game is "a bit" racist he replied: "It's very racist and in America (US) many gamers identify themselves with that racism. Moreover, Black Templars, that have the Iron Cross as a sign and their colours are black, white and red, are clearly Nazis"

"Have you noticed that a percentage of the players belong to the extreme right wing?" we asked 35 year old Takis, a middle school teacher who claims to be "left wing". "Yes, but I don't know why. Maybe they are fascinated by the epic, heroic or even the racist elements of 40K. Because there is a lot of racism in the game." The next question that came up naturally is if 40K makes you feel superior compared to other people :"Yes, it's a bit elitist. It requires a lot of thought so it makes you feel..."somehow". Somehow superior" said Markos laughing. One of the most extreme statements we heard was :"It's been proved throughout the history of Greece that we can only go forward with a fascist government" said John. "And I am going to be the one executing them", added his friend Fotis.

Playing with your soul?

I would also add, playing with your sword. But why would someone fight with a sword in the technologically super advanced 40000 AD? And why does it's system has to be so authoritarian and obscurantist? And why does the "trophy" have to be the most valuable thing humans have, i.e. their souls?

"Because 40K combines elements that fascinate men, like chivalry, heroism, power, ability, speed etc" said 38 year old widely educated Kostas with his well structured speech. "Probably because we want to look better in comparison. Maybe I would never go to real war, but in the game you can be an awesome hero or a general without having to pay the price in return. For it's system now, the wider the network of planets that human inhabit becomes, the more we will keep losing our humanity. In the minds of the creators of science fiction, there is always a strong central authority necessary, which through cutting down our freedoms and though fear can create a structure in order for that new world to function. In 40K there is a mixture of western imperialism and eastern fundamentalism."

And why does the future has to seem so bleak I wonder: "Because", as 39 year old Giannis is saying "this sells. This game has the best marketing." "Furthermore because reality sucks and progress is even worse" adds the younger Minas. "Everything in the fluff is derived from human history, to an excessive extend maybe, but historically".

Why aren't women playing the game, I ask them: "Now you are delving into a touchy subject", Fotis told me, who is married and has one child. "Women don't go for mentally committing stuff. In order to be able to commit in something so that you can disengage from the everyday life, you have to be a man." Fotis was the same person who told me when I asked him why the ideology of the game is crazy: "Are there any ideological obstacles in fantasy?".

Epilogue

In the interview we did with 23 year old Markos, who describes the game as a "struggle for the survival of the human race" and as the "absolute decline", after he told us that "Warhammer is not a comedy but a tragedy with the classical sense, in a dystopian future" he also express the optimistic thought that "Man has the awesome capacity to conquer everything, even himself." When I asked what does he do to ...conquer himself he answered :"I am reading thousands of books, I am writing down stories and poetry, I work, talk, travel and do thousands of different things. Why? Because I have an enormous stress that I will stay mediocre"

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Originally Posted by Pac
Es muy facil aparecer, contestar la primer boludes que se dijo sobre el tema y quedar como un capo. Asi discutimos todos.




¿Crees que puedes desafiarme, escoria humana?¿A mi, la perdición de imperios, el Padre del dolor?Bien, déjame que te enseñe.... Después de todo, necesito una nueva mascota...
- K´shaic, Arconte de la Cábala del Loto Cortante
Los accionistas de ahora son los gobiernos de ayer.

maten y destruyan a los griegos!!!!!!! :@

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Vo no queres entrar aqui!!!!

http://s1.sfgame.cl/index.php?rec=35577

y si no te convence entra a este!!!!

http://s1.sfgame.cl/index.php?rec=35577

vean mi enfrentamiento YO Vs el foro xD
http://www.wargamez.com.ar/foro/la-l...ias-20385.html
y mi foto de victoria ---> http://proyectonaschy.files.wordpres.../thor-mito.jpg

My blog -----------> http://elcazadorgris.blogspot.com/

Salimos en el diario!!!

"Somehow like chess, but much bloodier." se acuerdan cuando nos pidieron una descripcion de wargamez? XD

La verdad no me sorprende, he leido barbaridades y boludeces de los jugadores de wargames y rol (principalmente vampiros). La ignorancia lleva a los periodistas a escribir cualquier estupides, aunque mas ignorantes son los que leen y creen estas cosas.

P.D: No lei la nota...mucho sueño jajaja. Mañana la leo

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"Rojo corre maz!!!!" dijeron los Orkos. Flash siguió su consejo

Ves Thorak, somos mas de uno los que coincidimos en que los Orkos son "Negros cabezas"

Yo me los voy a cojer a estos tipos mas ignorantes no pueden ser.
Lo lei todo y son unos estupidos dice que es re satanico y que la mujeres no juegan porque nosotros decimos que no tienen la suficiente capacidad mental para enteneder el transfondo.
Que somos nazis, racistas (hay en warhammer 40k racismo entre humanos?), xenofobos (puede ser ), que somos dictadores, que somos unos pajero de merde que no salen ni a la luz del dia y que somos ocultistas.

Estos pelotudos ya me hicieron re calentar boludos ya me siento para el orto. Me arruinaron el dia los griegos estos.

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http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/1...operdance3.gif

"Es preferible utilizar en lugar de llamas brujas una honesta Hacha Sierra"

no son todos los griegos, es solo una boludita de una revista de domingo, esta escrito asi a propósito.

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Minis 40k (en stock)
Sets Vallejo
Pastitos y piedritas
Dust Tactics Miniaturas
Pinturas Vallejo y P3

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Muchos prejuicios, necesidad de vender y hacer una nota que llame la atención, aunado a una mala recolección de datos, una estadística espantosa, testimonios de oído sin confirmación y comentarios sacados fuera de todo contexto... eso es lo que es esa nota

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El roce de múltiples patas por el suelo y el zumbido de alas son el sonido que señalan el paso de un señor de las sabandijas. Este inconcebible ser prefiere la caricia de las patas que se arrastran y de las alas revoloteantes de una mosca más que el contacto de otra persona. El señor de las sabandijas se ofrece a sí mismo como morada para toda clase de organismos parásitos e insectos que se alimentan de su cuerpo. No sólo permite la infección, sino que se regocija en ella.

No es por ofender, si hay algún miembro del foro que es periodista, pero a la prensa le encanta generar impacto, espectáculo, llamar la atención, que es lo que vende periodicos y crea audiencias. Y con el tema del rol, wargames y demás se suelen colar siempre, porque no es un hobby generalizado como puede ser el fútbol o el ciclismo.
A nadie se le ocurre decir en prensa que el ciclismo consiste en chutarse anabolizantes en dosis de caballo o que ser hincha de fútbol se basa en coger una barra de hierro e ir a pegarle a los del equipo contrario. y sin embargo son actitudes que existen. Pero como esta afición nuestra es poco conocida, pueden generalizar a partir de los cuatro pelotudos (como dicen allá al otro lado del charco) a los que se les va la cabeza.
Yo en 20 años metido en esto he conocido gente para todo, incluida gente realmente de extrema derecha, y satánicos, pero no tiene nada que evr con el juego.

en el blog de Kirby 3++ , aparecio y se explica mejor todo esto .
la "periodista" le hizo un par de entrevistas a jugadores de warhammer y unos mas raros, otros mas normales , contestaron a nivel generico y la mina lo deformo y retorcio para hacer un articulo bomba.

No tiene nada de periodismo , como decir lo de los templarios y las cruces nazis , si no se llamaran Templarios , podria dudarlo . pero son templarios , cruz templaria , etc etc etc.

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Minis 40k (en stock)
Sets Vallejo
Pastitos y piedritas
Dust Tactics Miniaturas
Pinturas Vallejo y P3

asco

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Miercoles 8 de junio de 2011
Miercoles 24 de agosto 2011
Viernes 28 de octubre 2011
Lunes 9 de enero 2012 (A. I)
Lunes 19 de marzo 2012 (A. O)

... driving you crazy ...

;D

http://dibujosesculturasymas.blogspot.com/

Nazi no.
Racista si.
Xenofobo obvio.
Dictador tb.
Pajero de merde amen.
Salir a la luz del día, pa q salir, si puedo estar limando juegos sentado en el sillon de la pc, con twistos + coca y una pornito ocasional asi como quien dice la cosa.
Ocultista, no podria ser, me daria miedo.

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Me hizo acordar a ese otro artículo que habían posteado por acá, ese que decía que WH40k era una forma del gobierno para que los jóvenes se acostumbren a los implantes cibernéticos, a usar drogas tipo anabólicos, y a meterse en el ejercito (!?!?!). Bizarro, yo que sé. Osea, sí, yo guardo mi caja de Black Reach abajo de mi copia autografíada de "Mein Kampf", pero jamás le había encontrado relación alguna...

Tampoco seamos ingenuos, es de destacar que los ambientes de juegos historicos y de modelismo estan bastante abarrotados de muchachos que suelen girar a la derecha!

una cosa es ser de derecha y otra es decir que los templarios son nazis.
De la gente que conozco por foro y en persona , he conocido de muchas clases y con muchas opiniones distintas .

Nap , no te lo voy a desmentir , pero igualmente es solo otra generalizacion .

A algun jugador de 40 K , le dio ganas de meterse en el ejercito por jugar a los soldaditos ?
Yo solo conozco uno.

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Minis 40k (en stock)
Sets Vallejo
Pastitos y piedritas
Dust Tactics Miniaturas
Pinturas Vallejo y P3

Si es un fake, me la chupa, si es una nota "seria", me la chupa dos veces, porque si fuera griego estaria preocupandome del quilombo que tengo por chuparle el pene a los liberales y no por los muñequitos.

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Extranjero, informa a los espartanos, que aqui yacemos obedeciendo a sus preceptos.

Fundamentalista del Weathering.

Más que la de la idelología de cada uno, el problema de esta clase de artículos y reportajes es la imagen de bicho raro/fanático paramilitar/miembro de secta turbia que se nos coloca a los jugadores de rol y wargames

Yo no conozco a nadie que se haya vuelto nazi o se haya alistado en el ejército gracias al Warhammer ni ningún otro juego de miniaturas. Sí es cierto que conozco a gente en el ejército que juega a esto porque les gustan los temas militares, pero de ahí a ser un fanático extremista media un mundo. Y los nazis se suelen dedicar a otras cosas, no a los muñequitos.

Y la tipa esa del periodico llega a ver la portada del nuevo libro de Warlord, el HAIL CESAR! y le da una embolia fijo.

Me ganaste de mano. Venía a decir lo mismo.

Adhiero a la proliferacion de fachos en el wargame y demas, pero...no se puede decir lo mismo del futbol, por ejemplo?

Me parece este un caso mas del tipico oscurantismo anti-cultura friki (o sea, no mainstream), como cuando se perseguia al JdR en las iglesias televangelistas y demas, o el caso de Mauro Viale en nuestro pais en el 94.
Solo buscan algo sensacionalista, porque se habran quedado sin nada que comentar por un par de dias sobre que celebriti se culio a quien.

Por otro lado:

""hablan de que los jugadores de warhammer son de extrema derecha,


y hay mucha gente que se ha quedado muy indignada

Si! los de extrema derecha!!!

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http://radiodustinforma.blogspot.com/

http://miniaturaspopulares.com.ar/

Dust Company - Mercado

+1.

Como con todo tipo de acusacion de este tipo... cada uno sabe lo que es. Con eso claro, me pueden paspar los huevos de tanto chuparmelos.

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