Androides y robots en el Imperio

Zombipatagónico · 07-02-2011, 00:20:20

Hola!
En algún lado leí que en el universo de W40k, en el Imperio, en algún momento abandonaron a los robots y a los androides, es así? Ocurrió en la época esa que la tecnología medio que se abandonó y se volvió una religión?
Dónde se puede leer sobre eso?
No hay robots en el imperio?
De paso, otra pregunta, donde puedo leer la historia o el trasfondo de los Dreadnoughts?

razios · 08-02-2011, 02:56:56

basicamente. desarrollaron IA. dependiendon de las maquinas.,maquinas se revelan y humanidad gana duramente. desde entonces la IA pasa a ser INTELIGENCIA ABOMINABLE. y se pasa usar maquinas sobre gente. para que nunca una inteligenica extraña domine la maquina.

pero si tienen cyborgs. son maquinas con un cortex cerebral que le permitee dar ordenes simples y precisas. pero no es un cyborg como pensamos.

xxvaderxx · 08-02-2011, 03:00:50

Exacto, es el por que de los Dreadnought, no son inteligencia artificial sino que un space marine lo comanda.

Ducho · 08-02-2011, 10:57:38

si queres saber mas, lee la jihad butleriana de dune, de donde GW gentilmente "tomo" el trasfondo.

Alexandros · 08-02-2011, 17:20:00

Un poco de transfondo viejo. De cuando si habia robots en el 40k

Imperial Robots
-M Brunton, WD 104

THE LEGIO CYBERNETICA

The Legio is responsible for the care and construction of all Robots
throughout the Imperium. Robots may be used by all kinds of Army and
Marine forces, but they are always under the Legio's final control.
Indeed, many of the Adepts of the Legio have been killed while taking
part in military operations. The Legio continues to serve, aware of its
value as a fighting force, even in the face of 90% plus casualties.

The Legio is organised into several thousand cohorts, although only a
percentage of these is ever active at any one time. Each cohort is in
turn organised into maniples of three, four or five Robots plus a
Legion tech-adept. The number of maniples in a cohort varies, but is
rarely more than 100. However, a cohort is usually spread across an
entire Marine force of several Chapters or a single Army. Battles
involving more than 4 or 5 maniples are rare. This is not to say that
they have never occurred - during the Horus Heresy in particular large
numbers of Robots were committed by both sides in an effort to minimise
human casualties until a decisive final battle could be fought.

Each maniple is virtually a self-contained unit. The (typically) four
units are managed on the battlefield by a single tech-adept. He has
little more to do than give the Robot's their final programs and then
monitor their progress. He is, however, also charged with making sure
that a damaged Robot (which could be dangerous to its own side) is
destroyed as quickly as possible. Each Robot carries a self-destruct
system which can be detonated by remote control should its programming
fail in some way. Although rarely present on the battlefield (if they
can help it) there are also a number of other, lesser tech-adepts who
perform all maintenance and repair functions for the maniple. Their
services are also highly sought after for other purposes. It is said
that a tech-adept of the Legio is worth his weight in spares and can
repair virtually any item of Imperial equipment.

Legio cohorts are occasionally attached to campaigning Marine Chapters,
such as during Operation Carthage (the Second Pacification of Isstvan
V). When the Desert Lions Chapter took the planet's defence forts they
were preceded by a complete Legio Cohort of Robots. The Robots had been
programmed to advance in an apparently mindless fashion, and proved
easy targets for the defenders. However, the Desert Lions used the
opportunity to map out the defenders' fire-plans and blind spots. In
the Lions' ensuing assault only seven Marines were lost. All the
surviving Robots were inducted into the Chapter as honorary members as
a mark of respect.

The Inquisition has also put Cohorts of the Legio to good use. Robots
are, by their very natures, utterly incorruptible. Their preprogrammed,
non-biological natures make them the perfect troops to use against
mutants and other contaminated populations. The terror value of Robots
when used against unprepared and underarmed troops has not gone
unnoticed by the Inquisition. This, combined with their unflagging
loyalty, has made them valued additions to the Inquisition's armoury.
Cohorts attached to the Inquisition are usually staffed by
technician-Inquisitors rather than Legio Adepts. Robots may be pure and
incorruptible; men are not.

This was proven during the Horus Heresy, when many Legio Cohorts
rebelled under the leadership of Warmaster Horus. The Cohorts had been
placed under the Warmaster's command in preparation for a new crusade.
When Horus commanded his forces to move against the Emperor, the Legio
Cohorts at his disposal were among those to obey. In the subsequent
fighting many more of the Adeptus Mechanicus joined Horus and his
rebels, but this did not alter the fact that parts of the Legio had
been the first to declare for the Warmaster. Following the defeat of
the Heresy and the banishment of the Traitor Legions, the dishonoured
Legio Cohorts also fled into the Eye of Terror, where they remain to
this day.

Since the defeat of Horus the Legio Cybernetica has pledged itself anew
to the Imperium. Its members now take binding oaths of loyalty more
terrible than any Marine Chapter oaths. Over the millennia they have
regained the respect and admiration of the rest of the Adeptus
Mechanicus, the Imperial Guard, and the Adeptus Astartes.

Legio maniples require less transport space than standard military
units (Robots can be carried in open space without harm), less life
support and food (Robots neither eat nor drink) and less battlefield
support (Robots usually carry their own heavy weapons). Many Robots use
standard armaments, reducing the need for specialised supplies, and can
interchange parts with Dreadnoughts. All this makes them extremely
popular with practical military commanders.

Some of the older Cybernetica cohorts claim that their Robotic troops
date, in part at least, back to the First Crusade of the Imperium and
earlier. These claims may have some validity, as Robots are often
cannibalised to provide parts for their damaged brethren. Given the
lifespans of Imperial technologies when maintained, such claims become
reasonable. It is indeed possible that one Robot's leg, or Power Field
or cortex has been in almost constant use for more than ten thousand
years.

Like a Dreadnought, a Robot is the product of the many advanced
technologies which have produced its armoured shell, its artificial
muscle and nerve bundles, its cortex, power plant, weapons control
systems, equipment interfaces and cortex. The Mechanicus Weapon-shops
turn out many Robots to the age-old designs held in the memory banks.
Castellan and Crusader pattern Robots, for example, are known to have
fought on both sides during the Horns Heresy. The designs have remained
virtually unchanged since that time, with perhaps only minor cosmetic
variations.

Many Robot components are identical (or nearly so) to Dreadnought
parts. This compatibility simplifies many supply and repair problems.
Legio cohorts have, for example, been cannibalised out of existence to
provide spares for Dreadnought suits! In return Legio Cybernetica
adepts have not been averse to dismantling Dreadnought suits -
sometimes even killing the pilot in the process - when making
battlefield repairs.

What makes a Robot different from an unoccupied Dreadnought suit is its
cortex. This is an artificial brain of sorts, which is constructed from
artificial proteins and enzymes. This cortex is imprinted with simple
maintenance and movement routines - a rudimentary 'mind'. These enable
the Robot to obey simple instructions ("Open the Weapon Bay Door,
Please... Move Ahead to the Holding Area" etc) when away from the
battlefield. These 'firmware' routines (so called because they are
'wired in' software) are often patterned after living creatures, and a
Robot may develop a dog-like devotion to its technician-master.

Before a battle the firmware routines are overlaid and replaced by the
Robot's combat wetware (ie the software of a protein computer). This
new cortex program, which can be changed for every battle, defines, for
example, how and when the Robot is to fire its weapons or detonate its
self-destruct charges.

Each piece of wetware is held in a small slice of bioplastic, about the
same size as a credit card. Many warriors take these from 'dead'
robots, believing that them to hold the soul and courage of the robot.
When kept in a medicine pouch some of the robot's bravery passes into
the warrior; even some Marine Chapters have been known to follow this
tradition.
Without its cortex a Robot is as helpless as a bolter without a Marine.
It can do nothing other than take whatever punishment is meted out to
it. With its cortex fully programmed, however, a Robot can prove itself
the equal of many other creatures on the battlefield.

carlos5891 · 09-02-2011, 14:25:40

Zombipatagónico · 09-02-2011, 17:36:23

Ah, que bueno! Gracias. Alguna otra novela que hable del tema?

Alexandros · 09-02-2011, 18:01:59

Cita:

Empezado por carlos5891

SPOILER!!!!!

Ducho · 09-02-2011, 18:11:44

Cita:

Empezado por Alexandros

SPOILER!!!!!

exacto. gracias carlos por cagar el final de la novela.
me pregunto para que dan abnett se tomo el laburo de armar toda una intriga en torno al mensaje codificado, si cualquiera podria spoileartelo asi como asi?
seran caprichos propios de un escritor, que nada tienen que ver con este foro.

para colmo, logro resumir toda la novela en un parrafo continuo, sin un solo punto y seguido o punto y aparte.
it hurts my eyes

Zombipatagónico · 09-02-2011, 19:37:57

Jajaja, Sí, soy de los que se leen el final de los libros antes :P

carlos5891 · 09-02-2011, 21:17:16

bueno los siento ejem, no le di relavancia a este hecho pues para mi lo mas interesante de todo el libro es el resto de el, pues desde un principio en como se van desarrollando los eventos que escribe este señor. pues vale la pena leerlo pues es un cuento mediano como para leer un buen domingo de weba o un dia templado en un sillon reclinable y pues a pesar de leerlo varias veces pues es divertido recomiendo que lo lean, ademas el meollo del asunto del libro no gira entorno a ese evento si no que es un evento secundario a toda la trama en desarrollo de este que culmina en otro evento aun mayor que este hecho.

Ducho · 09-02-2011, 21:32:35

me parece que queda a criterio de cada lector que es importante y que no a la hora de leer el libro. para el caso, tengo los tres omnibus de gaunt, leidos al menos dos veces cada uno, y no por eso les voy spoilear lo que a mi no me parece relevante.
lo que si, no voy a dejar de recomendarlos, porque estan muy bien construidos.

pero aca se viene groso spoiler, no lo lean porque les arruina la saga

Zombipatagónico · 02-03-2011, 17:43:36

Arghhh, ahora me doy cuenta, pasando la mitad del libro Los primeros de Tanith del terrible Spoiler... Pero bueh, decí que esta buena la historia y los personajes que no dependen del factor sorpresa...

07-02-2011, 00:20:20	#1 (permalink)
Zombipatagónico Cereebroooo Fecha de Ingreso: Jul 2009 Ubicación: Zona Norte Mensajes: 1.602 Agradecimientos dados: 252 Agradecimientos recibidos: 218 Online Status:	Androides y robots en el Imperio Hola! En algún lado leí que en el universo de W40k, en el Imperio, en algún momento abandonaron a los robots y a los androides, es así? Ocurrió en la época esa que la tecnología medio que se abandonó y se volvió una religión? Dónde se puede leer sobre eso? No hay robots en el imperio? De paso, otra pregunta, donde puedo leer la historia o el trasfondo de los Dreadnoughts? __________________ Hogar del SSDT http://www.battlemaster.com.ar/index.php ^^ Conspiración Zombie - 1888 http://www.sinapsit.com/

08-02-2011, 02:56:56	#2 (permalink)
razios avatar de la sangre Fecha de Ingreso: Apr 2009 Mensajes: 1.316 Agradecimientos dados: 11 Agradecimientos recibidos: 96 Online Status:	Re: Androides y robots en el Imperio basicamente. desarrollaron IA. dependiendon de las maquinas.,maquinas se revelan y humanidad gana duramente. desde entonces la IA pasa a ser INTELIGENCIA ABOMINABLE. y se pasa usar maquinas sobre gente. para que nunca una inteligenica extraña domine la maquina. pero si tienen cyborgs. son maquinas con un cortex cerebral que le permitee dar ordenes simples y precisas. pero no es un cyborg como pensamos.

08-02-2011, 03:00:50	#3 (permalink)
xxvaderxx Caballero Fecha de Ingreso: Sep 2008 Mensajes: 2.215 Agradecimientos dados: 17 Agradecimientos recibidos: 60 Online Status:	Re: Androides y robots en el Imperio Exacto, es el por que de los Dreadnought, no son inteligencia artificial sino que un space marine lo comanda. __________________ Definicion oficial del culoduro: Mediante el decreto imperial MMMXVLLII, todo aquel jugador que opte, ya sea por accion u omicion, por jugar de una manera plana y unidimensional, que se aprovecha de las debilidades del reglamento, entendiendose por estas tanto falencias del reglamento, mecanicas abusables y deficiencias de balance, es mediante este decreto del dios Emperador declarado CULODURO. Muestra tu lealtad al Emperador y copia esta firma.

08-02-2011, 10:57:38	#4 (permalink)
Ducho The Laughing Magician Fecha de Ingreso: Oct 2008 Mensajes: 2.882 Agradecimientos dados: 9 Agradecimientos recibidos: 181 Online Status:	Re: Androides y robots en el Imperio si queres saber mas, lee la jihad butleriana de dune, de donde GW gentilmente "tomo" el trasfondo. __________________ The damned always demand company. If they suffer, then so must everybody else.

08-02-2011, 17:20:00	#5 (permalink)
Alexandros Profeta del Plasticard Fecha de Ingreso: Feb 2008 Mensajes: 3.421 Agradecimientos dados: 286 Agradecimientos recibidos: 288 Online Status:	Re: Androides y robots en el Imperio Un poco de transfondo viejo. De cuando si habia robots en el 40k Imperial Robots -M Brunton, WD 104 THE LEGIO CYBERNETICA The Legio is responsible for the care and construction of all Robots throughout the Imperium. Robots may be used by all kinds of Army and Marine forces, but they are always under the Legio's final control. Indeed, many of the Adepts of the Legio have been killed while taking part in military operations. The Legio continues to serve, aware of its value as a fighting force, even in the face of 90% plus casualties. The Legio is organised into several thousand cohorts, although only a percentage of these is ever active at any one time. Each cohort is in turn organised into maniples of three, four or five Robots plus a Legion tech-adept. The number of maniples in a cohort varies, but is rarely more than 100. However, a cohort is usually spread across an entire Marine force of several Chapters or a single Army. Battles involving more than 4 or 5 maniples are rare. This is not to say that they have never occurred - during the Horus Heresy in particular large numbers of Robots were committed by both sides in an effort to minimise human casualties until a decisive final battle could be fought. Each maniple is virtually a self-contained unit. The (typically) four units are managed on the battlefield by a single tech-adept. He has little more to do than give the Robot's their final programs and then monitor their progress. He is, however, also charged with making sure that a damaged Robot (which could be dangerous to its own side) is destroyed as quickly as possible. Each Robot carries a self-destruct system which can be detonated by remote control should its programming fail in some way. Although rarely present on the battlefield (if they can help it) there are also a number of other, lesser tech-adepts who perform all maintenance and repair functions for the maniple. Their services are also highly sought after for other purposes. It is said that a tech-adept of the Legio is worth his weight in spares and can repair virtually any item of Imperial equipment. Legio cohorts are occasionally attached to campaigning Marine Chapters, such as during Operation Carthage (the Second Pacification of Isstvan V). When the Desert Lions Chapter took the planet's defence forts they were preceded by a complete Legio Cohort of Robots. The Robots had been programmed to advance in an apparently mindless fashion, and proved easy targets for the defenders. However, the Desert Lions used the opportunity to map out the defenders' fire-plans and blind spots. In the Lions' ensuing assault only seven Marines were lost. All the surviving Robots were inducted into the Chapter as honorary members as a mark of respect. The Inquisition has also put Cohorts of the Legio to good use. Robots are, by their very natures, utterly incorruptible. Their preprogrammed, non-biological natures make them the perfect troops to use against mutants and other contaminated populations. The terror value of Robots when used against unprepared and underarmed troops has not gone unnoticed by the Inquisition. This, combined with their unflagging loyalty, has made them valued additions to the Inquisition's armoury. Cohorts attached to the Inquisition are usually staffed by technician-Inquisitors rather than Legio Adepts. Robots may be pure and incorruptible; men are not. This was proven during the Horus Heresy, when many Legio Cohorts rebelled under the leadership of Warmaster Horus. The Cohorts had been placed under the Warmaster's command in preparation for a new crusade. When Horus commanded his forces to move against the Emperor, the Legio Cohorts at his disposal were among those to obey. In the subsequent fighting many more of the Adeptus Mechanicus joined Horus and his rebels, but this did not alter the fact that parts of the Legio had been the first to declare for the Warmaster. Following the defeat of the Heresy and the banishment of the Traitor Legions, the dishonoured Legio Cohorts also fled into the Eye of Terror, where they remain to this day. Since the defeat of Horus the Legio Cybernetica has pledged itself anew to the Imperium. Its members now take binding oaths of loyalty more terrible than any Marine Chapter oaths. Over the millennia they have regained the respect and admiration of the rest of the Adeptus Mechanicus, the Imperial Guard, and the Adeptus Astartes. Legio maniples require less transport space than standard military units (Robots can be carried in open space without harm), less life support and food (Robots neither eat nor drink) and less battlefield support (Robots usually carry their own heavy weapons). Many Robots use standard armaments, reducing the need for specialised supplies, and can interchange parts with Dreadnoughts. All this makes them extremely popular with practical military commanders. Some of the older Cybernetica cohorts claim that their Robotic troops date, in part at least, back to the First Crusade of the Imperium and earlier. These claims may have some validity, as Robots are often cannibalised to provide parts for their damaged brethren. Given the lifespans of Imperial technologies when maintained, such claims become reasonable. It is indeed possible that one Robot's leg, or Power Field or cortex has been in almost constant use for more than ten thousand years. Like a Dreadnought, a Robot is the product of the many advanced technologies which have produced its armoured shell, its artificial muscle and nerve bundles, its cortex, power plant, weapons control systems, equipment interfaces and cortex. The Mechanicus Weapon-shops turn out many Robots to the age-old designs held in the memory banks. Castellan and Crusader pattern Robots, for example, are known to have fought on both sides during the Horns Heresy. The designs have remained virtually unchanged since that time, with perhaps only minor cosmetic variations. Many Robot components are identical (or nearly so) to Dreadnought parts. This compatibility simplifies many supply and repair problems. Legio cohorts have, for example, been cannibalised out of existence to provide spares for Dreadnought suits! In return Legio Cybernetica adepts have not been averse to dismantling Dreadnought suits - sometimes even killing the pilot in the process - when making battlefield repairs. What makes a Robot different from an unoccupied Dreadnought suit is its cortex. This is an artificial brain of sorts, which is constructed from artificial proteins and enzymes. This cortex is imprinted with simple maintenance and movement routines - a rudimentary 'mind'. These enable the Robot to obey simple instructions ("Open the Weapon Bay Door, Please... Move Ahead to the Holding Area" etc) when away from the battlefield. These 'firmware' routines (so called because they are 'wired in' software) are often patterned after living creatures, and a Robot may develop a dog-like devotion to its technician-master. Before a battle the firmware routines are overlaid and replaced by the Robot's combat wetware (ie the software of a protein computer). This new cortex program, which can be changed for every battle, defines, for example, how and when the Robot is to fire its weapons or detonate its self-destruct charges. Each piece of wetware is held in a small slice of bioplastic, about the same size as a credit card. Many warriors take these from 'dead' robots, believing that them to hold the soul and courage of the robot. When kept in a medicine pouch some of the robot's bravery passes into the warrior; even some Marine Chapters have been known to follow this tradition. Without its cortex a Robot is as helpless as a bolter without a Marine. It can do nothing other than take whatever punishment is meted out to it. With its cortex fully programmed, however, a Robot can prove itself the equal of many other creatures on the battlefield. __________________ Dragones de Jouran: Un Blog de la Guardia Imperial Mi viaje en tren: dibujos

09-02-2011, 14:25:40	#6 (permalink)
carlos5891 Jinete Fecha de Ingreso: Dec 2010 Mensajes: 137 Agradecimientos dados: 0 Agradecimientos recibidos: 2 Online Status:	Re: Androides y robots en el Imperio Bueno alguna referencia hay en la historia de gaunt en su primer libro "los fantasmas de gaunt" en el cual una de las misiones en cierto planeta lo llevan a este para ganar una batalla en este, pero desde el fondo de la politica hay un obscuro objetivo tras este que es la localizacion de mundo factoria, con una de las platillas de construccion estadnar del imperio de la era oscura de la tecnologia que se perdio, en la cual esta creaban los llamados guerreros de hierro unos robots con inteligencia artificial de la cual gaunt (la verda no se donde estudio eso o conquien platica este gauntm, pero siempre informado esta), bueno la factoria la sepultaron bajo tierra, pues en alguna parte de ese tiempo las maquinas se rebelaron y en su momento fueron vencidas rapidamente y cerrada esta, tambien clausurada, el mismo emperador creo prohibio el uso de IA en androides y uso de robots, pues carecen de voluntad y alma propia, y son muy suceptible a las energias del caos, cosa que paso con estos guerros he hay de que en alguno momento pudo o habran utlizado robots y androides todo esta dentro de la gran maraña de los archivos clasificados del imperio. Última edición por Ozzymandias fecha: 03-03-2011 a las 00:42:27. Razón: Spoiler

09-02-2011, 17:36:23	#7 (permalink)
Zombipatagónico Cereebroooo Fecha de Ingreso: Jul 2009 Ubicación: Zona Norte Mensajes: 1.602 Agradecimientos dados: 252 Agradecimientos recibidos: 218 Online Status:	Re: Androides y robots en el Imperio Ah, que bueno! Gracias. Alguna otra novela que hable del tema? __________________ Hogar del SSDT http://www.battlemaster.com.ar/index.php ^^ Conspiración Zombie - 1888 http://www.sinapsit.com/

09-02-2011, 19:37:57	#10 (permalink)
Zombipatagónico Cereebroooo Fecha de Ingreso: Jul 2009 Ubicación: Zona Norte Mensajes: 1.602 Agradecimientos dados: 252 Agradecimientos recibidos: 218 Online Status:	Re: Androides y robots en el Imperio Jajaja, Sí, soy de los que se leen el final de los libros antes :P __________________ Hogar del SSDT http://www.battlemaster.com.ar/index.php ^^ Conspiración Zombie - 1888 http://www.sinapsit.com/

09-02-2011, 21:17:16	#11 (permalink)
carlos5891 Jinete Fecha de Ingreso: Dec 2010 Mensajes: 137 Agradecimientos dados: 0 Agradecimientos recibidos: 2 Online Status:	Re: Androides y robots en el Imperio bueno los siento ejem, no le di relavancia a este hecho pues para mi lo mas interesante de todo el libro es el resto de el, pues desde un principio en como se van desarrollando los eventos que escribe este señor. pues vale la pena leerlo pues es un cuento mediano como para leer un buen domingo de weba o un dia templado en un sillon reclinable y pues a pesar de leerlo varias veces pues es divertido recomiendo que lo lean, ademas el meollo del asunto del libro no gira entorno a ese evento si no que es un evento secundario a toda la trama en desarrollo de este que culmina en otro evento aun mayor que este hecho.

09-02-2011, 21:32:35	#12 (permalink)
Ducho The Laughing Magician Fecha de Ingreso: Oct 2008 Mensajes: 2.882 Agradecimientos dados: 9 Agradecimientos recibidos: 181 Online Status:	Re: Androides y robots en el Imperio me parece que queda a criterio de cada lector que es importante y que no a la hora de leer el libro. para el caso, tengo los tres omnibus de gaunt, leidos al menos dos veces cada uno, y no por eso les voy spoilear lo que a mi no me parece relevante. lo que si, no voy a dejar de recomendarlos, porque estan muy bien construidos. pero aca se viene groso spoiler, no lo lean porque les arruina la saga gaunt en realidad es un cylon, y brin milo mata a dumbledore, pero es toda una estratagema para poder capturar a voldemor y al coronel bison __________________ The damned always demand company. If they suffer, then so must everybody else.

02-03-2011, 17:43:36	#13 (permalink)
Zombipatagónico Cereebroooo Fecha de Ingreso: Jul 2009 Ubicación: Zona Norte Mensajes: 1.602 Agradecimientos dados: 252 Agradecimientos recibidos: 218 Online Status:	Re: Androides y robots en el Imperio Arghhh, ahora me doy cuenta, pasando la mitad del libro Los primeros de Tanith del terrible Spoiler... Pero bueh, decí que esta buena la historia y los personajes que no dependen del factor sorpresa... __________________ Hogar del SSDT http://www.battlemaster.com.ar/index.php ^^ Conspiración Zombie - 1888 http://www.sinapsit.com/

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